Battle For middle Earth 3.2

Muma priority
5% AS nerf to imra aura may be considered,
Owynan aura should possibly also be nerfed by 5%
Owynan summon hotkey should be C
kugel said: SOMEHOW IT FEEEEELS LIke the corinir ulti affects melee to *hissssssssssss*
swordsmen of dol amroth has too high dm
Replace the orc units easter starts with at dol goldur with footmen.
Gwaers aura is 5/10 5/15 10/20, either buff gwaers aura or buff imras to an equal  level, since dol already has units that do much more dps
How strong is pirate of umbar in relation to other units? or are they just supposed to be a cheap version of a footman ?
Lumber mill should be 1 size smaller.

move the isen creeps so they are near the river. Would make them more accessible for both sides.
Grish+CO starting position (think you done this) remember to also move rohan units if you move them.
Move those mountain giant creeeps so they face north west. Would be less out of ones way and easier to just ''pick up and take''
Move/nerf dead marshes creeps. Dunno where you could mvoe them when i think about it...but theyre still pretty annoyigng when walking past /a moving remove their poison maybe. they are already too strong comp to other spots.


OR you could also make it like that gwaer creep spot, spots like troll and those spiders are only once a game, and all the creep spots that respawn are neutral with possibility for both races to take. Like remove the respawn of those troll creeps near khand but also remove those dol bandits, and have only that island that respawns for dol/harad. Can also have that middle creep spot that fs creeps in start as only start creep, would reduce power and availability of powerlvling heroes like ara/gand that really has no oppurtunity to do, much cause of strength of evil creeps and the fact that gand has the highest dps in game+nice dmg spells so easy solo creep.

All easter unit priority

Possible to remove orc/troll/wolf/spider from dol goldur and rather spawn footmen/javelin and brign back those beastmasters without taunt, and instead of taunt something like 5 basic dm reduction on all attacks, 20% spell resistance 25-40 normal dm(without grades) heavy armor 800 ish hp. yes yes lore and all that shit dg must spawn orcs blah blah blah. Fuck lore. orcs just die and theyre not fun to use at all. Those beastmasters would spawn in larger quantities mid-late. (also with footmen/jav spawning in such great numbers would be good looking over their stats to see if they are useful!)
With a stronger easter army it would be plausible to nerf plague by 25% or something. Making ova less important and all that ..which is good(if that mana regen change is cumming.

Easterlings start with 15-19 dm 5 armor MEDIUM ARMOR (makes them horrible against other melee) , while gondor footmen  22-23(or something like taht) dm heavy armor 5 armor
Variags should also be considered giving a buff, cause except for surrounding and meat shield youre never afraid of them they do so little dps. A buff is probably needed(reduce summon skill of kurgath if youre buffing them)
Javelineers aren't undead.
Nightmare on nazgul should take 10 less mana.
5% ms aura to harad if they hold near harad.
Trueshot aura should only affect elves

^many of these ssuggestions are written while in game and may just be horrible.
 
A full list:

Battle for Middle Earth 3.2
Changelog:

Terrain:
-Khand
-Lorien
-Dol guldor
-Minas Tirith Second Gate
-Lorien/Guldor river crossing
-Edoras Higher Ground
-Minas Dunharrow changes, mainly pathing
-Helms Deep main gate fixed
-Khands Creep terrain changed

Towers:
-Nerfed Barad-dur towers
-Nerfed MT gondorian archers
-Nerfed Black Gate Towers
-Fixed Trebuchets bugged splash (MT/gothmog)
-Umbar towers moved around
-Commence tower -750 hp
-moved Tower of Ecthelion around

Creeps:
-Merged Lorien/guldor creeps
-moved Isengard creeps closer to river
-Nerfed marches creeps, moved them slightly west

Good side:
-Boromir's Horn is now a unit skill for easier use
-Gamling banner only effects Rohan
-Nerfed Founts/champions/royal Damage/AS (slightly)
-Faramir MS aura nerfed
-Loreth MS equels heros ms now
-Thrandruil has inventory now
-Gandalf his AOE skills have been nerfed in damage and amount of units
-Edoras Return Damage nerfed from 25% -> 20%
-Lorien archer skill nerfed (100->75 dmg 2->1 sec stun)
-Removed Pulverise from Ancient Protectors
-Haldirs Tranquility Cooldown increase from 1 min to 5 min.
-Replaced Treebeards Entangle with a Critical strike
-Denethor has a new ulti, Mana flare ward (TO BE FINISHED BY NWG)
-Hama's Call to Arms cooldown increased from 0 to 60 sec
-Unit buy from Armory (Helms Deep) fixed
-Removed Eowyns autocast heal
-Eomers ulti increased CD 220->300
-Anborns ulti increased CD 120->240
-Theodred Starting location, easier for gather
-Cair Andros -5armor -300 hp. starting hp at 80%
-Gondor Gather has been made easier, units are more clustered
-Archers towers NERF -2 armor -200 hp
-Dol Amorth Demi auras effect own units only
-Forlongs Ulti boost +5 more daamge and lasts 25 seconds. DOL ONLY
-Buri-khan can no longer be webbed/netted
-Imrahil and Treebeard -100 hp
-Sword-master of Dol Amroth -5 max damage
-Nerfed narya AOE range
-Haldirs Trueshot aura only works on own units now
-Nerfed Dol Amroth Knight bash by 25 damage
-Imrahil MS/AS aura nerfed AS by 5% each level
-Halbarad Banner nerfed 10/5% ms 20/15% as
-Galadriel and Thrandruil now have Shadow Melt
-lorien swordsman now have normal dmg

Evil side:
-Poisoned Dagger Buff in damage and decay time
-isen heros (grima new spell, lightning -dmg 0/20/40 dmg -2 targets lvl3, silence 5/6,5/8 ->4/5/6, summon crebain for lurtz)
-harad demi now has inventory
-easterling +3dmg heavy armor
-replace saru cripple with siphon mana
-devour damage down 60->40, oaks cant be devoured anymore
-naz ring +1 armor
-kurgath banner nerf | longer CD and -200% hp regen.
-commence mana regen nerfed by 50%
-new spell for 4th naz, dispells aoe magic and drains 40/60/80 mana.
-mordor spearman +6 dmg
-reduce naz food from 60->40
-battery ram MS increased
-added siege damage for mordor trolls against buildings
-remove orb zuldan give ward from kulgath
-nerfed howl of terror mordor wyrm. -5% dmg and smaller aoe.
-suldan model size+, +20 mana replace armor buff by wave
-udun units +5 sec cd and max of 5 stack
-buff pirates of umbar +20 hp and 3 dmg
-owyn aura harad only
-buff naz AS slightly
-naz nightmare mana cost -10
-crossbow isen medium armor
-nerf lurtz crit, buff as, remove mana heal on heal
-slight rohan rider AS buff and +2 dmg
-isen bomb can target self to explode.
-gwears aura +ms and +as, equals Imrahil aura now.
-Mumakil Priority easier for stomping

General:
-+10 ms(5%) too all units/heros
-Recalibrated all armor and armor upgrades per level


Things left to do:
-nerf brill, increase mana regen all heros/demis.
-find replacement gala MANA shield
-unify ALL collision
-aoe frenzy for kulgath 5/10/15 ms + 15/20/25 as
-purge like single target for ova instead of frenzy
-easter trolls->balcoth(remove taunt and add magic resistance)
-replace guldor units with easterlings units
-near harad +5% ms to harad when evil has it
-max 9 peons for isen
-check armor redution table and check the tooltips.
 
mura is fine u retard.
imra/TB were insane tanks unkillable unless with elite surround. and they still are really strong.
imra is still has mor hp then mura now.
and you forget all the armors were nerfed, aswell as naz ring, so he doesnt have mass armor as before. so dies faster.
 
Looking like the best version since 2.7 atleast. Looking forward to actually playing it.
 
yeah fang is really unkillable consider that elv can spamheal him so hardcore retard
whats the point also in removing spell for useles stuf that no1 gonna use anyway until lv 10 zz
 
Well, if the version is rdy soon, I guess I'm gonna install wc3 on my new comp, since I'm looking forward to try it
 
Changes i have no idea why they are changed:

-Removed Eowyns autocast heal
-Haldirs Trueshot aura only works on own units now
-isen heros (grima new spell, lightning -dmg 0/20/40 dmg -2 targets lvl3, silence 5/6,5/8 ->4/5/6, summon crebain for lurtz)
-remove orb zuldan give ward from kulgath

-Eowyn feels kinda usless without it early game tbh
- Trueshot aura is now tottaly usless kinda, only thing that made it worth pick was that it effected all, esp since archer are easily killed if targeted by spells
-Isen wasnt practicly strong, what have u done to buff them since this is pritty hard nerf? (i alrdy know shipon mana) but his units needs some buff
-Yet again i dunno why this was changed i think zuludan with his orb was really good, not really imbalanced and ward fits kurgath more then zuldan anyway

the otherthings i dont mind, also remember to set boromirs horn skill at a good pos like 2nd row 2n slot or so.

edit: cornirs ulti should be nerfed abit if you havent

if yo uwant me to do some spawn changes just send map i guess
 
Jonas said:
Changes i have no idea why they are changed:

-Removed Eowyns autocast heal
-Haldirs Trueshot aura only works on own units now
-isen heros (grima new spell, lightning -dmg 0/20/40 dmg -2 targets lvl3, silence 5/6,5/8 ->4/5/6, summon crebain for lurtz)
-remove orb zuldan give ward from kulgath

-Eowyn feels kinda usless without it early game tbh
- Trueshot aura is now tottaly usless kinda, only thing that made it worth pick was that it effected all, esp since archer are easily killed if targeted by spells
-Isen wasnt practicly strong, what have u done to buff them since this is pritty hard nerf? (i alrdy know shipon mana) but his units needs some buff
-Yet again i dunno why this was changed i think zuludan with his orb was really good, not really imbalanced and ward fits kurgath more then zuldan anyway

the otherthings i dont mind, also remember to set boromirs horn skill at a good pos like 2nd row 2n slot or so.

edit: cornirs ulti should be nerfed abit if you havent

if yo uwant me to do some spawn changes just send map i guess

I agree with jonas.
haldirs trueshot only gives 1-2 archers more for yellow and +10%dmg on himself at level 1 now, wasn't strong before imo.
@isen I think it's a good idea that silence is nerfed (if I understood right) dunno about rest.
keep orb on zuldan, and imo kul shud keep ward, makes him more worth (which he needs, only worth the exp steal cus of ulti, not sure slam alone wud be worth the exp cost)
 
I have to agree on this as well, Orb makes Zul fun. I find Slam quiet ok, and worth the exp leech, but miss his wave :S Can't comment on Hals aura, since I don't fancy to play Fang myself
 
Easter is getting new spells. aoe frenzy for kurgath that wont affect heroes. i dont think he has enough mana for 3 spells.(with ulti its 4)
zuldan orb was never really useful only in odd cases.
Ovatha getting a new spell.

Eowyn heal d oesnt matter, only in cases where she heals herself or emergency heal for other heroes you have woses. She's more useful at lvl 1 if u let her go melee with slam rather than heal. Rohan already has 6 or so autoheal in start
Isen is getting buffed as  mentioned before
haldir aura affecting all makes an unstoppable army of death.
trueshot aura at lvl 1 isnt taht useful, pick frost arrow. lvl 3 its 30% thats 1/3 more archers. so if good side has 80 worth of food they get 120+ worth food of archers since 80 archers can fire more easialy than 120  archers. And archer is easialy targetable yes. but if good side has trueshot aura and a ton of archers its impossible for evil  to make a comeback.

Corinir ulti yes nerf.

To add about the aura discussion:
OMG THEODEN AURA IS SHIT AT LVL 1 BUFF AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! 5/10/15 ARMOR IS DECENT I GUESS MAYBE EVEN 20 ON LVL 3 SINCE ITS LAST LEVEL AFTER ALL!
OMG IMRAHIL AURA IS LAME AT LVL 1 BUFF AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! 5 10 15  10/20/30 IS NOOOOOOOOOOOTHING MAKE IT TWICE THAT ATLEAST DOESNT REALLY MATTER EVIL CAN WAVE AND KILL NP
OMG TRUESHOT AURA IS LAME BUFF IT MAKE IT 50% 100% 150% AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! GOOD SIDE ONLY GETS A BIT OVER TWICE AS MANY DOESNT MATTER THEY DIE EASY SO NP
OMG ROHAN BANNER ISNT THAT GOOD MAKE it 20% 20% AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL THEY ARE ROHAN AFTER ALL THEY SHOULD BE FAST. ISEN CAN JUST USE LIGHTNING AND KILL PLUS THEY HAVE IMBA HEAL SO ROHAN NEEDS TO BE ABLE  TO RUN
OOOOOOMG WHY IS FARA AURA? 10% AT LVL 3 THATS FAG  MAKE IT 10 20 30 ATLEAST ANd 150 300 500 hp rREGEN AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVIL IS OK THEY HAVE NAZGUL WHICH CAN WAVE DOWN UNITS NEWAYS
AND SAM AURA ONLY AFFECTS FS ? LOL MAKE IT AFFECT ALL UNITS AND HEROES MAKE IT 15, 30, 45 MS ITS FS AFTER ALL THEY SHOUL BE GOOOOOD.
 
anyone slam 1st skill on eowyn? worth much more then her heal...
isen units have been buffed, thou i didnt write that all down.
and about isen heros, i spread the power around more. so its not all about saru. and no.. i know its not all about saru.. but for most ppl it is. i guess i could swap ward back to kul and add orb again.. but meh. i dont like kul with ward. and slam is definatly worth the exp. if not for the damage it sure is for the as/ms slow on units.
Trueshot aura is imba lategame with mass rangers,spearthrowers and lorien archers..

will check cori.
 
well for some reason turin thinks fang is op, tho the aura change makes more sense then giving tb a crit
 
nice post riz, sounds like going back in time back to.. what reloaded? aurafest?
 
Way better to just remove haldris aura then becouse it was NOT IMBA, BECOUSE IT NEVER was in range of all archers anyway unless good actuly teamed somewhat and gave elves control of al larchers, wich as of yet never happend, and if its in range of all archers all archers cant fire without being in dangure becouse stacking them to much is like asking to lose the battle, in this case it migth be imba aslogn as archer got n ospell aim, but most armies alte game have few archers cosue they die very fast

and giving tb a crit is just usless... giving him a self rege is even more usefull

THE ONLY TIME. THE ONLY TIME good gets a death ball of archers is when they already won becouse evil cant set any pressure at good at ALL. if theycan pressure good i nanyway good cant get a death ball of archers... AND if you think its imba its better to nerf the % or remove the spell nothing else make sense, cosue it went be good at level 3 even if its only yellow, ur argument is stupid and not based on any ingame experince at all just how u feel after looking at the values

the diffrence is that armor auras are actuly good at 1 race only becouse it effects all units...

i tbh think rizel ur trying to chagne what isnt really in need to be changed rigth now, the units should be the main focus and not the spells, and the late game units. I understand that super duper imba80% miss should def be nerfed but anything else than that i dunno, becouse late game (removing haldirs aura (it bearly makes a diffrence anyway) good will still win becosue there armys are generaly stronger and thats what u gotta fix, change the spawns up giving evil maybe some similare half semi elites like royal guards of gondor that theycan spawn more of late game and so on, that would help alot more (obs u cant over do it cuz then pubs wud suck but just abit more)

kugel said:
well for some reason turin thinks fang is op, tho the aura change makes more sense then giving tb a crit

fang is storng but not op, when buffing isen you have to buff it carefully becousebuffing to much will suck as then fang cant won or def so. and yes i agree the aura change make more sense becosue it has a better logic behind it even if its all theorycraft, becosue try scrap up 80archers 30min in a game where the teams are balanced. You will notcie you wont have enougth spawns to actuly really do so... ANd if you are able to do that, they will take so much food from you that you will have less of the core army that you need, becosue u probably (i mean u cant like say exactly) but prob lost both elves spawn or some other spawns on the map and elves stands for most of the archer production of good if u count mirkwood outpost, they u have gondor but same there if gondor even have close to 40 archers he has to much food spent on archers instead of units like eagles and elites late game , becouse 40 archers face a few waves and all his gameplan of having mass archer is gg and he loses.. And most likley they lost some other spawn that spawns archers aswell, and there is no summon that summons archers, there is a buy tougth in henneth, but to get archers from there to you migth be provven hard, and its not fast enougth to replenish ur archer count.

infact as said before i think its more generaly that mordor5s normal orcs sucks ass lategame and he needs somthing more like semi elite units aswell in his army anyway
Rizel said:
To add about the aura discussion:
OMG THEODEN AURA IS SHIT AT LVL 1 BUFF AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! 5/10/15 ARMOR IS DECENT I GUESS MAYBE EVEN 20 ON LVL 3 SINCE ITS LAST LEVEL AFTER ALL!
OMG IMRAHIL AURA IS LAME AT LVL 1 BUFF AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! 5 10 15  10/20/30 IS NOOOOOOOOOOOTHING MAKE IT TWICE THAT ATLEAST DOESNT REALLY MATTER EVIL CAN WAVE AND KILL NP
OMG TRUESHOT AURA IS LAME BUFF IT MAKE IT 50% 100% 150% AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL! GOOD SIDE ONLY GETS A BIT OVER TWICE AS MANY DOESNT MATTER THEY DIE EASY SO NP
OMG ROHAN BANNER ISNT THAT GOOD MAKE it 20% 20% AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL THEY ARE ROHAN AFTER ALL THEY SHOULD BE FAST. ISEN CAN JUST USE LIGHTNING AND KILL PLUS THEY HAVE IMBA HEAL SO ROHAN NEEDS TO BE ABLE  TO RUN
OOOOOOMG WHY IS FARA AURA? 10% AT LVL 3 THATS FAG  MAKE IT 10 20 30 ATLEAST ANd 150 300 500 hp rREGEN AND MAKE IT AFFECT ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVIL IS OK THEY HAVE NAZGUL WHICH CAN WAVE DOWN UNITS NEWAYS
AND SAM AURA ONLY AFFECTS FS ? LOL MAKE IT AFFECT ALL UNITS AND HEROES MAKE IT 15, 30, 45 MS ITS FS AFTER ALL THEY SHOUL BE GOOOOOD.

This is sad mockery becosue it makes no sense and isnt close to what im saying, the other auras are actuly good (some good alrdy early) mid-to late becouse they effect all units so even if u lose spawns u can summon or buy units and they wil leffect them. This is not the case witha trueshotaura where its rly good early game but at level 1 atm but lose pourpes later and later into the game, (besides if u want to make lego imba with higher crit ofc!) and making it his team only u effectivly made it 100% usless lategame instead of 50%..
Rizel said:
trueshot aura at lvl 1 isnt taht useful, pick frost arrow. lvl 3 its 30% thats 1/3 more archers. so if good side has 80 worth of food they get 120+ worth food of archers since 80 archers can fire more easialy than 120  archers. And archer is easialy targetable yes. but if good side has trueshot aura and a ton of archers its impossible for evil  to make a comeback.

level 1 and 2 trueshot arua is currently better then level 3 becosue at that point u will never have enougth archers to make it as good as level 2, unless evil sucked, and withthis change i doubth picking level 2 will be justified, and EVERYBODY already choses slow as first spell anything else would be dumb...

 
I GO AURA FIRST TT
but yeah the dmg in lategame comes from MELEE units and barely from ranged
 
Nothing is needed to change. I was going to suggest that haldirs aura be buffed to 15 30 45 but it is already that. How is it not op to have 45% extra on all allied ranged units in range. It is something which can be abused, its not really used now but if it happens that good gets such a critical amount of ranged and lvl 3 aura its kinda bleh so tired.

Why the fuck are you guys complaining so much about crit, it's just a ''dummy spell'' till someone suggests something good, fangorn has more than enough stuns more than any other in the game by far.

And yes that aura whine was indeed a bit of sad mockery. but to add to it the only aura which still affects all allies is only gamling banner which will be rohan only now haldir aura and possibly mouth aura. all others only affect their own race including theoden armor aura (im 81% sure) ooh yes and all those other auras like dol demi grond armor... dont think harad banner affects all
I dont understand how you can say that trueshot aura 45% is barely useful NOW. you clearly underestimate the effect of having so much extra dm on ranged units that can all hit at once at the same unit. So what I am understanding from you people is that; It doesnt matter if I have the dm of 15 archers instead of 10, should just make all auras affect all again since after all such small values as 10% doesnt really matter even if it affects all it is barely useful.

Yes i think evil will be more powerful than good with all t hese changes but we will do test games before release, and if good is too weak compared to evil necessary measures will be done to balance it... You're whining over things like giving tb crit instead of suggesting something else.

Jonas said:
level 1 and 2 trueshot arua is currently better then level 3 becosue at that point u will never have enougth archers to make it as good as level 2, unless evil sucked, and withthis change i doubth picking level 2 will be justified, and EVERYBODY already choses slow as first spell anything else would be dumb...

???????????????????? I am confused. how is 15% dmg more worse.

anyways....i guess the real argument is about the aura  idont understand why u are protesting so much abot this i am unsure of its range, 700? if its going to affect all it should be a smaller aoe sometjhing like 400, but i would prefer having it only affect elves and be larger range since haldir doesnt really go south that often....... 

edit: from what i know people didnt say trueshot aura was useless when there were less units, less dm and worse heroes in melee. (compared to bfme
 
Rizel said:
Nothing is needed to change. I was going to suggest that haldirs aura be buffed to 15 30 45 but it is already that. How is it not op to have 45% extra on all allied ranged units in range. It is something which can be abused, its not really used now but if it happens that good gets such a critical amount of ranged and lvl 3 aura its kinda bleh so tired.

Why the fuck are you guys complaining so much about crit, it's just a ''dummy spell'' till someone suggests something good, fangorn has more than enough stuns more than any other in the game by far.

And yes that aura whine was indeed a bit of sad mockery. but to add to it the only aura which still affects all allies is only gamling banner which will be rohan only now haldir aura and possibly mouth aura. all others only affect their own race including theoden armor aura (im 81% sure) ooh yes and all those other auras like dol demi grond armor... dont think harad banner affects all
I dont understand how you can say that trueshot aura 45% is barely useful NOW. you clearly underestimate the effect of having so much extra dm on ranged units that can all hit at once at the same unit. So what I am understanding from you people is that; It doesnt matter if I have the dm of 15 archers instead of 10, should just make all auras affect all again since after all such small values as 10% doesnt really matter even if it affects all it is barely useful.

Yes i think evil will be more powerful than good with all t hese changes but we will do test games before release, and if good is too weak compared to evil necessary measures will be done to balance it... You're whining over things like giving tb crit instead of suggesting something else.

Jonas said:
level 1 and 2 trueshot arua is currently better then level 3 becosue at that point u will never have enougth archers to make it as good as level 2, unless evil sucked, and withthis change i doubth picking level 2 will be justified, and EVERYBODY already choses slow as first spell anything else would be dumb...

???????????????????? I am confused. how is 15% dmg more worse.

anyways....i guess the real argument is about the aura  idont understand why u are protesting so much abot this i am unsure of its range, 700? if its going to affect all it should be a smaller aoe sometjhing like 400, but i would prefer having it only affect elves and be larger range since haldir doesnt really go south that often....... 

edit: from what i know people didnt say trueshot aura was useless when there were less units, less dm and worse heroes in melee. (compared to bfme

its not its not 45% at level 3 lawl(its 35%). Becouse at the point u reach level 5 to get the level 3 aura archer has lost there effectivness in the game even with the extra 10% damage to the aura (no not 15%), becosue 1) u wont ever have as many archers becouse you simply got smaller armies at this point of the game couse of lost of spawns its kinda natural 2) becouse at this point u start spawn so many heavy hitting melee units like royal guards champiosn dol knigths royal knigths gondor elites eagles that outshines archers even with 35% extra, also counting they all gotta be inrange of haldir when the battles happens, and at this stage of the game archers die easier becouse there is less melee units to protect them and less of "arc battles" and more short instanses of hero targeting and spawn targeting - no where near where archers shine

in the begining of the game the aura can be potenitaly imba becouse 15% extra damage to archers in begining when u got loads of them at osg for exemple wud be strong, and could be considered a good tactic to send haldir down there just for the aura. But fang loses his slow to but its not the biggest of deals, the level 2 is also good since at that stage of the game u will most likley unless ur getting owned still have enougth archers to justifiy picking it and there will still be big arc battles around the map

Im not saying level 3 is worse then level 2 that would be lol, im saying at the point u reach level 5 the aura in general is not as needed as before unless good has pwned all game ofc and like only lost 1 spawn and bearly any heroes etc, but as you know even in privs that is uncommon unless teams are stacked, at the stage of level 5 the extra slow on frost arrow is more justified then the extra 10% on the aura, and im not saying it should be buffed or anything im just saying the auras strongest point is earlier in the game, wich you said the opposit off.

And i do think owynvans aura hits all (wich would be a bug) wich could be a huge balance issue tougth since it hits ALL Units melee and range..

But basicly what im saying id rather have it replaced by somthing else then making it only hit elves couse elves alone will not be able to justify picking it at all, becouse you will most likley lose ur arhcer spawn earlier in the game, somtimes you dont and thats good for you i guess, but its very rrisky picking a spell thats based on having lorien alive, considering lorien is not a stronghold anymore, unless u get massed wood anbd build alot of towers ofc.

and ur comment about melee is bad, becouse in melee you can train units and rebuild what unit you want and if you lsoe ur prouction buildings you most likley lost the game, in bfme you cant so if you lose ur archer spawn IT IS USELESS (if it only works on elves) but if you lose lorien it doesnt mean u lost the game, but it means u picked a spell that has no use and probably had limited use to you to start with (there are other spells like this in bfme i know but this is one of the best examples) so its basicly better tio pick speed frost arrow cosue you will know that that will be somewhat usefull all game, and not monstly a certain little period of it.

note: im not saying you shouldnt change it if u want to idc, im just trying to make you understand why i think what i do lol

edit: im pissed now couse sen lost vs nestea :(
 
well u could give him impaling arrow (same as legolas) for it, tho then i bet rizel or turin gonna cry that fang has to many waves now
or a heal but wait then fang can defend against target! oh noez then he should lose atleast another 2 stuns i would say
 
OK JONAS i understand your reasoning now which makes sense, good discussion. But about late game elves having little archers depends. If for example fang has maintained superioirty over isen and not really losing anything while he's been creeping good decides to go kill isen, evil retaliates by taking down dol. fangorn or good side in general (atleastr elves) will have quite an amount of archer and atleast lvl 2 trueshot, which will be very hard to stop. But yes i understand that it is a kind of useless spell if lorien gets killed off say compared to theodens armor aura which makes all your units stronger. Maybe a solution is switching out a unit elves has with a "huntress like" unit that has short range but performs the job of a melee unit. Make the lorien swordsmen f.ex act like spellbreakers with like 100 range so that they get boosted by aura. Will prob need a nerf to 10 20 30 then possibly. Since swordsmen is getting normal dm now i think this will actually work out pretty well.

@kugel i hope you're joking with those spells. And fangorn still has the same amount of stuns only now its a melee stun. The stomp is exactly the same as imra's stomp or eomers......... which gets picked all the time.

edit: and that owyn aura has been changed to affecting harad only as u can see in the changelog.

Oh and maybe reduce the swordsmen mana by a bit they have 60? atm thats a ridicolous amount of heals that can be cast. Reduce regen also since they are too good farms at the moment.
Edit: actually they ''only'' have 25 but i guess it should be reduced to 15 i guess. and check mana regen.
kugel said: dol wardens give vision long after theyre dead. half orcs should have another armor (imo you can prob just cut them from isen spawn theyre kinda weak anywys? same with those javelin they need a buff or something cause they feel useless but then i havent palyed isen in a long time. properly that is.
morgul is on high ground.
How much range does that haze have? it seems kinda small but its like 65% on lvl 3 so i guess its ok.
The game seems to bug if you have destroyed all spawns and a hero is still inside orthanc. bug in the fact that it does not end, doesnt really matter except you lose nerd pride by having to leave.
I think dunland spawns a bit too many maybe cut 1 unit like half orc or javelin and spawn a bit more of something else at dunland.
 
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